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Collecting
Guide
Collecting
Mosins can be a very enjoyable pastime. The Mosin offers a
firearm that was made in great numbers and by many different
countries. Because of their large numbers, they are readily
available on the market and easy to find. The downside is
that because of their large numbers, it's hard to separate
the wheat from the chaff to find truly collectable rifles.
To begin collecting, you need to have some knowledge about
what you are going to collect, how you are going to do it
and where the item can be found. After all of that, it would
be a good idea to have some ability to appraise the rifle
you are after and a method to keep your collection organized
and on track.
Knowledge
Knowledge is
power and in the case of collecting, money or value. A quick
review of my website or others, and you get the idea that
there is a ton of stuff you should know about Mosins before
you collect them. Fortunately, there are a lot of good
resources available to you to help you learn. When I first
started out collecting, no one I knew had any idea of what a
Mosin was.
I went down to my local library but drew a blank. They had
very little to offer in the way of historic firearms. Of
course this was before the days of electronic inter-library
searches. My next stop was the computer. I wore out the
search engines looking for material. I came up with two hits
- Mosin Nagant Homepage and Tuco's Mosin Man's Military
Surplus Firearms ….the precursor to Mosin Nagant dot Net. It
literally took me months to learn the basics of the Mosin
Nagant. In just the last couple of years, the resources have
expanded tremendously. There are books, websites, chat rooms
and forums dedicated to the Mosin Nagant. Where there was
once a lack of information, there is now almost too much.
Sorting it all out can be a challenge. So where do you
start?
There are two books to start
with that will provide a good overview of the major Mosin
Nagant families:
For the Russian models I
would recommend Terrence Lapin's books. His books are
comprehensive but not boring or dry. He touches on most of
the Mosin variants and describes them well enough for you to
recognize them at a dealer or gun show.
If you want more detail and can read German, the most
comprehensive book on Mosins outside of Finland or Russia
has be "Mosin Nagant Three Line Rifle" by Karl-Heinz Wrobel.
K-H covers every Mosin ever made that a record exists on.
His in-depth reviews of the Mosin covers their inception,
the arsenals where they made and the geopolitical climate at
the times they were made. He provides information about
prototypes and accessories that is not found anywhere else.
There is a trio of books concerning the Mosin Sniper. All
three are military manual translations and are equally good.
Lapin's translation reads a little easier as he has
presented the material using western grammar and sentence
structures. Paul Tamony's translation is more faithful to
the original and Major James Gebhardt's lies somewhere in
between.
For the Finnish rifles, Doug
Bowser's Rifles of the White Death is the definitive US
produced work. He does a very comprehensive review of the
Finn Mosin and some of the history behind their development.
The most definitive work in the world was done by the
Finnish author Markku Palogankas in a three volume set that
sells in the $300 range and can only be obtained in Finnish.
Tuco's Mosin Nagant dot Net is another site on the net totally dedicated to the Mosin Nagant.
For very comprehensive information, you might want to visit
7.62x54r.net. However, there are other sites as well that mention the Mosin in some detail or feature photos of the various Mosin
rifles. Most of these sites can be found in the links
section on this site. My favorite resource on the web is the
various search engines like Google, Yahoo and Lycos. I hit the
search engines at least every other week.
Web forums are the best
things to happen to collecting in years. With the click of
your mouse, you can interact with collectors who have been
at it for years and know all the ropes. However, be prepared
to get your share of people on the fringe who seem to lurk
around the forums just to take occasional snipes at other
posters or to further their own political agendas.
The better forums are closely moderated and flames and
attacks are dealt with swiftly. Using a forum is an
excellent way to benefit from the success and failures of
others and to learn from their experiences. Depending on
your comfort level, you might actually enjoy being able to
ask those questions that you have always had in a
non-threatening environment. I haven't found a news group
that can stay focused long enough to be truly beneficial but
there are some gems of wisdom to gleaned from them as well.
Chat rooms also
provide a good opportunity to interact with other
collectors. It has the benefit of providing real time
feedback to your questions and comments.
Tools
A good collector uses all the
tools he or she can to build on their collections. Because
the military surplus firearms market is so wide spread and
good local resources are rare, a C&RFFL is almost an
essential tool. The C&RFFL or Curios & Relics Collectors
Federal Firearms License is issued the Bureau of Alcohol
Tobacco and Firearms. The ATF is part of the US Treasury
Department and is tasked with the oversight and enforcement
of Federal firearms regulation and taxation. A C&R license
provides the collector with a method to purchase firearms
for the sole purpose of collecting any where in the United
States without having to go through dealers to handle out of
state transactions. The license is only good for specific
firearms proscribed by the ATF and does not negate state and
local laws regulating the purchase, sale of possession of
firearms. It is not intended as a license to sell firearms
as a business, although you may make occasional sales to
balance out your collection. Just be aware that your
definition of occasional may not be the same as the ATF's.
The license costs $30.00 and is good for three years. I can
almost guarantee that you will recoup that money on your
first out of state purchase.
How to apply:
You can order the application
form from the ATF's website at: http://www.atf.gov/ or contact the
National Licensing Center. Their address is:
Federal Firearms
Licensing Center
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia
25405
USA
Voice
(866) 662-2750 (Toll Free)
Fax
(866) 257-2749 (Toll Free)
NLC@atf.govWhen you receive the forms,
fill out two copies. Send one copy to your "Chief Law
Enforcement Officer" and the other along with a $30 check to
the address on the form. To find out who your CLEO is in
your community, call your local police and sheriff's
department. It will be one of the two.
It will take several weeks to
process the license application. If you haven't received it
after 8 weeks, start contacting the license center for a
status. Once you receive the license, DO NOT SIGN IT. Make
several copies, sign only the copies and start sending them
out to the various vendors and distributors. At the same
time, obtain a bound book to record your acquisitions and
dispositions. Make sure you keep good records as they are
subject to inspection upon the request of the ATF.
If you choose not to go the
C&RFFL route, you are left with doing a dealer transfer for
your entire out of state purchases or sales. Dealers
typically charge $20 to $30 for each transaction plus any
applicable fees and taxes normally associated with a gun
sale. This adds a healthy overhead to the costs of
collecting. Many distributors will not offer a single
individual the same pricing or service as they would to a
license holder. When doing dealer transfers, they are
legally selling your dealer the firearm and he is then free
to charge you what ever he wants.
Acquisition
It's a good idea to stay
current on the market values for the firearms you collect.
Part of that process is recognizing the differences in
market prices locally, regionally and nationally. I
generally take an average of all three to establish what I
think I should pay for a particular firearm.
Distributors and Importers
handle large volumes of firearms and deal with overseas
exporters, shippers, US Customs and the ATF. They receive
the firearms through Customs, grade them and sell them in
bulk to other US distributors, large retail outlets and
select dealers.
 They
operate in what is called the primary market. The
distributors are not really going to loose any sleep if you
as an individual buy from them or not. They will give you
the best service they can but their whole focus is on the
reseller. They do not have the time, resources or personnel
to adequately inspect each and every firearm they sell.
Houses like Century and Inter Ordnance may have some very
knowledgeable sales representatives. However, your rifle is
ultimately selected by some guy working in the warehouse. He
doesn't know squat about arsenal marks, grade or rarity. A
distributor will not deal with a non-license holder as that
violates their association with their resellers.
Dealers and Resellers are two
different types of businesses. A dealer may be a traditional
"bricks and mortar" establishment or the dealer may be a
virtual business located on the web and working out of a
small shop or part of their home. Most dealers that handle
any volume of military surplus firearms are well known in
the collector's community. It is always a good idea to ask
about a dealer that you have never used on a forum. There
are good and bad dealers like in any other line of retail
sales. A dealer's prices will generally be higher of that of
the distributor's. He is handling smaller volumes and has to
tack on his costs and profit. I also include gun show
vendors in this class. Most people believe that they can get
a good deal at a gun show when in fact they are paying about
40% more for the very same rifle that Century Arms sells to
C&RFFL holders for less. As a matter of fact, I don't know
how many times I have seen a table of rifles at a gun show
that were so fresh out of the box from Century that they
still had the cosmoline on them and the Century trigger
tags.
Auctions are not the best
deal in town. The goal of an auction is to get the most
amount of money over the threshold established by the
seller. It never works to the advantage of the buyer. I have
seen $30 rifles sell for three times their value. I will not
sell on the auction market because as a license holder I
must be cautious about my dispositions. The C&RFFL
regulations specifically address that the license is not for
business purposes and I won't run the risk of my excess
profits being viewed by the ATF as not being within the
spirit of the law.
Buying from individuals
either direct of through an auction can be risky. My advice
is not sell or buy from an individual unless you know him or
her or they have been strongly recommended by other
collectors.
Disposition
Buying leads eventually to
selling Mosins as you thin out your collection to acquire
better examples. I won't go into the complexities of the
bound book required for licensed collectors except to say
that you must log all of your dispositions regardless of how
the firearm was disposed. If you aren't sure if you need to
record a disposition, record it anyway. Better safe than
sorry should you ever have to endure a compliance audit from
ATF.
When you sell a rifle, get as
much information from the buyer as possible. If it is a
casual sale, meaning informal transactions between private
citizens as allowed by state law, ask for at least two forms
of identification showing a current address and date of
birth. One form of I.D. must be a driver's license or
Sheriff's I.D. Make sure you record the information complete
with the license number.
When dealing out of state,
remember that you can only ship to a C&R license holder or
licensed dealer. Do not listen to any stories about how
someone "knows" that it's o.k. in their state. It's a
federal law. Make sure that you receive payment and a copy
of their license before shipping the rifle. Only ship to
address listed on the license.
When shipping the rifle, you
have a couple of alternatives. One is to ship via UPS
(United Parcel Service) and the other is through either
FedEx or the US Post Office. When shipping via UPS, you must
go through a depot and have a copy of your license and the
license of the person receiving the rifle. If the
transaction is going through a licensed dealer, you will
need a copy of the dealer's license. Remember that when you
are handling the transaction through a dealer, you use the
dealer's information in your bound book not the buyers. You
will need the same documentation when shipping through other
carriers. UPS outlets such as Mailbox Whatever ( you know
who I mean ) will not accept firearms for shipping. You must
go through a depot. Should you encounter any difficulty at
the depot, ask for a manager and show him a copy of the UPS
tariff. A .pdf version is available here:
UPS Tariff . The tariff clearly states the UPS policy
on shipping firearms.
Remember that if you are a
C&R license holder, you may not give the appearance of
dealing in firearms. That means you should avoid frequent
sales of firearms or sales of large numbers of firearms. I
know a lot of folks ignore this but ATF does audit license
holders upon occasion and frequent sales will bite you in
the long run.
Shipping Tips
(Courtesy of Mark, aka
The Brat)
Tape -- This is the most
misunderstood component. For sealing cartons, do not use
masking or duct (or duck) tape. Neither is designed for
grabbing onto the surface of paperboard packaging and doing
a good job. Same goes for most filament tape. It is designed
for strapping, not carton sealing. It isn't a bad idea to
strap a carton, but strapping tape makes for a lousy seal.
Clear and brown tape are the
same, other than color. It is cheaper to use one piece of
quality tape over a seal than several pieces of cheap stuff.
Tape is designed to not stick to the back of other pieces of
tape. This is done so it will come off the roll. When
sealing a carton, a little overlap is as good as complete
overlap. Tape all the edges the UPS recommended style.
Cartons, aka boxes.
Corrugated cartons, which we all call cardboard boxes, are
not made from cardboard. Cardboard is a solid fiber. The
roundish seal you see on a carton will normally tell you
that a carton is either 200 pound test or 32 ECT.
200 pound test does not mean
the carton will hold 200 pounds. This is a figure derived
from an old railroad burst test. That said, the bigger the
number, the tougher the carton.
32 ECT means that the
material will support at least 32 pounds in an edge crush
test. To you and me, basically meaningless, except that 200
pound board and 32 ECT board are essentially the same.
Box makers lie. Just because
a carton guarantees a certain burst test or ECT doesn't mean
it will pass the test.
Bubble Wrap: Almost all
bubble today is non-barrier film meaning that it will slowly
leak the air out of its bubbles. For protection, a material
called poly foam works much better. Poly foam and foam
rubber are not the same. Poly peanuts will migrate in a
carton to an area where they will do the least amount of
good. For peanuts, you must over pack the carton so there is
no possibility of the contents moving around. In a long
carton that is likely to get a hole in it, peanuts are
worthless.
All plastics gas off
chemicals. If you put poly film, bubble or foam next to wood
or metal, expect it to leave impressions and likely surface
damage.
Paper: I suggest you wrap
your firearm in plain craft paper prior to rolling it up in
poly foam and placing it in a good corrugated carton. Wrap
the bolt separately.
Labeling: cover all labels
with clear carton sealing tape. Put an extra copy of the
address label in the carton in case the original is ripped
off.
A final bit of advice: Use
plenty of cushioning on the ends of those long cartons. When
packing a firearm, pack it snuggly to reduce movement in the
carton.
The long cartons most C&R
rifles come in are junk from the get-go. If you decide to
reuse one, it is important to use plenty of inner packaging
to make up for the weakness of the carton.
Source Chart
|
Outlet |
Plus |
Minus |
|
|
|
|
|
Distributor |
Cheapest source |
Inconsistent grading and
poor customer service |
|
Retail |
Better grading |
Cost goes up |
|
Dealer/Vendor |
Best grading |
Cost is even higher |
|
Auction |
Good source for rare
firearms |
Very costly |
|
Individual |
Good balance of price and
quality |
Can be very risky |
Collectable Gems
Here's a simple list of
models that are sought after the most. These are rifles that
are highly prized by collectors and that are not easily
found in every case. In the course of adding to your
collection, it's a good idea to keep a sharp eye out for
these models.
|
Russian Models |
|
|
|
|
Model 1891 |
American manufactured 91's. |
|
|
Pre-1895 |
|
|
Serbian Contract |
|
|
Chatterault |
|
|
|
Model 1907 Carbine |
|
|
|
|
Dragoon |
Type I |
|
|
Type II |
|
|
|
Kossack |
|
|
|
|
Model 91/30 |
Converted Dragoon |
|
|
East German |
|
|
Hungarian |
|
|
Chinese |
|
|
Korean |
|
|
|
Sniper |
PE |
|
|
PEM |
|
|
PU |
|
|
|
M38 |
Original stock |
|
|
|
M44 |
Tula |
|
|
Laminated stock |
|
|
Hex Receiver |
Most sought after Finnish
rifles. Note: Any of these with "hang tags", unit disks or
Civil Guard numbers is a plus!
|
Finnish Models |
|
|
|
|
Model 1891 |
Finn Tikka M91's |
|
|
P-Series |
|
|
VKT M91 |
|
|
|
|
M24 |
|
|
|
|
M27 |
Ski Trooper |
|
|
Standard without
reinforcement |
|
|
Standard with reinforcement |
|
|
|
Model 91/30 |
Tikka - round receiver with
"pot belly" stock |
|
|
Tikka - round receiver with
standard stock |
|
|
|
M 28 |
Ski Trooper |
|
|
Standard |
|
|
|
|
M28/30 |
|
|
|
|
M39 |
SkY |
|
|
Sako 1941 straight stock |
|
|
1943 VKT |
I did not mention Finn sniper
rifles as they are so rare that it is highly unlikely to see
one imported. This listing is not all inclusive but rather a
general guide to what is considered as the gems of any
collection.
Collecting these old rifles
can be an educational and fun experience. Just take the time
to learn as much as you can about the riles and where to get
them and your experience will be much more rewarding!
Collecting Directions
Sometimes as an advanced
collector, I forget about what it was like just starting out
to explore these great firearms. The new collector is faced
with a bunch of questions with regard to what direction
their collecting activity should take them. Occasionally, I
will receive an email on this very subject and I respond
without giving it another thought. It has occurred to me
though that more and more people are beginning to collect
the Mosin rifle and they might benefit from some ideas about
directions to take their collections in.
The first thing you want to
consider is why you want to collect Mosins. Are you
interested in their history, their design or do want to salt
them away for a possible future nest egg? Having an idea of
what it is that makes you want to collect goes a long way in
determining where you want to go with your collecting.
Collecting for Value
One thing that needs to be
said is this - there is no guarantee that these firearms
will be worth anything in the future. Even though they are
currently popular and you as a starting collector are
excited about them, twenty years from now, military surplus
rifles might be considered an oddity or unusual but they
might be desirable. As long as you are aware of that
distinct possibility, collecting for value is not a bad
thing.
The first thing you need to
do in collecting for value, is to determine which of these
rifles are the most value or have the most potential future
value. That sounds simple but really is a complicated
process because it involves learning as much about these
rifles as possible. In collecting for value, you are looking
for rifles that are unique, produced in smaller numbers,
hard to find and have qualities and characteristics that
separate them from the rest of the rifles in their type. One
way to consider this is that if you posted that you found
one of these rifles on a large forum, you wouldn't find more
than 20 percent of the people who would post that they have
one just like it. I won't get into specific models because
that could be a whole section on its own but I will mention
one or two.
Rifles that are dated
pre-production or end of production can fall in this
category. Consider, for instance, the 1943 dated M44. There
were only about 50,000 of these rifles produced that year
for trials and testing. An end of production might be the
1945 dated M38 as very limited numbers of those were ever
produced.
Scarce examples would go into
the value category like the 1907 Carbine or a Cossack or
Dragoon in original configuration.
Rifles having characteristics
that separate them from other rifles of their type might be
the B-barrel M39 and M91 or a Straight Stock M39.
I think you can get the idea
by now and you can also see that a great deal of study goes
into collecting in this direction. It also requires a great
of money and it is not for the faint of heart!
Collecting For History
Collecting for history can
either involve collecting rifles connected to a single event
in history or rifles associated historically with one nation
or group of nations. This includes rifles used in WWI, the
Spanish Civil War, the Finnish War of Independence and the
Continuation War and of course WWII. Rifles associated with
other nations might include the Polish examples or the
Bulgarian and Hungarian Mosins. Last but certainly not least
are the Finnish Mosins. The rifles you would collect would
either have markings or dates that would associate them with
these events or countries.
Collecting by Type, Country
and Year
Many collectors collect by
type and year. They might start out collecting Russian M44's
from 1943 to 1948 and then they move on to third country M44
by year. You might also collect M44's from every country
they were produced in and then expand out by year. After
that you might move on to 91/30s, M1891s and narrow your
collection down to Russian M91s, Finn M91s or Serbian marked
M91's.
The whole idea is focus and
organize your collecting activity so that you don't end up
with a hodge-podge of different Mosin rifles that would be
hard to catalogue and later dispose of. At the same time,
you get involved with the history of these fine rifles by
researching what best compliments your collecting direction.
I hope this article helps you to get started!
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